1. No category

ra “garigeba” Sedga inga grigoliasa da
lado papavas Soris?
gazeTi “kviris qronika” – 7-13 aprili, # 14, 2008
27 martis `praimtaimi~ premier-ministr lado gurgeniZisTvis iRbliani
aRmoCnda _ kacma ra ultimatumebic wamoayena, yvelaferi Seusrules.
rogorc `qronikisTvis~ gaxda cnobili, misi pirveli moTxovna is
yofila,
rom
profesor
lado
papavasTan
pirispir
dajdeboda da gadacemaSi aucileblad damxmare Zala,
marto
ver
anu Tavisi
momxre eqsperti, gia jandieri unda mieyvana. ki, batono, es arc Tu ise
Zneli Sesasrulebeli iyo da daTanxmdnen kidec, magram misi momdevno
ori kaprizis aRsruleba imaze mianiSnebs, rom Cven mTeli saRamo
winaswar dadgmul speqtaklTan miaxloebul gadacemas vuyurebdiT.
erTi sityviT, ra moxda `praimtaimis~ dawyebamde erTi saaTiT adre,
amaze TviT batoni lado papava gvesaubreba.
_ sxvaTa Soris, bolo dReebSi bevri mirekavs da meubneba, gadacemaSi
yvelaferi rigze iyo, Tqven warmatebiT gamoxvediT, magram aSkarad
Canda, rom lado gurgeniZes indobdiTo. jer erTi, es mesame mcdeloba
gaxldaT q-n inga grigolias mxridan, raTa Cemi da premier-ministris
Sexvedra Semdgariyo. pirvel SemTxvevaSi gurgeniZe ministrebTan erTad
unda mosuliyo, xolo meore mxares me unda vyofiliyavi kolega
eqspertebTan
erTad.
TiTqos
yvelaferi
SeTanxmebuli
iyo,
magram
bolos mTavrobam aRar moisurva am formatSi teleeTerSi gasvla.
Semdeg im gadacemaSi mimiwvies, romelSic e.w. 50-dRiani programa unda
gangvexila, Tumca mogvianebiT qalbatonma inga grigoliam damireka,
premieri winaaRmdegia, pirdapir eTerSi marto gamosvla undao. im
saRamos, gadacemis dawyebamde ramdenime saaTiT adre lado gurgeniZe
TviTon damikavSirda telefoniT da mTxova, erTi-erTze Sevxvedrodi:
me mas Tavis kabinetSi meore dRes Sevxvdi.
_ raze isaubreT?
1
_ TiTqmis yvelaferze, magram mec da isic mainc Tav-Tavis azrze
davrCiT. rac Seexeba mesame, anu ukve realur mcdelobas, 27 marts,
saRamos 9 saaTze q-ni inga grigolia mirekavs da meubneba: batono
lado, Tqven SegiZliaT, am gadacemaSi monawileobaze uari TqvaT,
premier-ministrs
moiyvanoso.
marto
vinme
gamosvla
jandiers
ar
unda,
imitom
vambob,
vinme
jandieric
rom
igi
unda
gadacemis
wamyvanisTvis iyo ucnobi, Torem CemTvis ucxo ar gaxlavT. qalbaton
ingas
uTqvams,
maSin
lado
papavas
gverdiT
kidev
erTi
eqsperti
davsvaTo, magram gurgeniZes amazec sastiki uari ganucxadebia.
_ ver gavige, am kacs Tqveni eSinia?
_ ar vici... mokled, q-n ingas vuTxari, Tu unda, gurgeniZem mesame kacic
moiyvanos, me problema ara maqvs-meTqi. elementaruli ambavia, rodesac
ori
adamiani
erTis
winaaRmdeg
gamodis,
xalxi
winaswarve
erTis
gulSematkivari xdeba.
_ batono lado, amixseniT, gurgeniZe TqvenTan erTad pirdapir eTerSi
ratom ver jdeba?
_ namdvilad ar vici. yvelaze saintereso is gaxlavT, rom gadacemis
dawyebamde
man
CamoTvala
Temebi,
romelTa
Sesaxebac
mTxova
ar
gvesaubra.
_ aseTi ultimatumi inga grigoliasac wauyena?
_ ar vici, rodesac gurgeniZem e.w. `akrZaluli~ Temebi CamoTvala, q-ni
inga iq ar iyo, Cvens saubars mxolod b-ni gia jandieri eswreboda. me
davTanxmdi, Tu wamyvani am sakiTxebs ar wamoWris, xmas ar amoviRebmeTqi.
_ premier-ministrma ra Temebi CamoTvala?
_ am Temebze Tqveni gazeTis furclebzec araerTxel misaubria, magram
raki piroba miveci da arc q-n inga grigolias uTqvams rame, ver
gavamxel.
2
_
arada, Tqveni daTmobis xarjze
lado gurgeniZe sakmaod mxned
gamoiyureboda.
_ rodesac kaci debatebis win gTxovs, raRac Temebze ar vilaparakoTo,
Sen ukve gamarjvebuli xar, ukve gecodeba da am adamians indob kidec.
me mgoni, aq qristianuli momentic aris. iciT, es ras hgavs? davuSvaT,
ringze
xar
gamosuli
da
mowinaaRmdege
gexveweba,
marcxena
warbi
dazianebuli maqvs da iqiTken xeli ar momiqnioo, Sen ki amas Tanxmdebi,
radganac ici, rom nebismieri mxridan seriozul upiratesobas flob.
_ me vxvdebi, gurgeniZe SemogTavazebdaT, erovnuli bankis Temaze ar
vilaparakoTo.
_ rogorc giTxariT am sakiTxebze dakonkreteba Cemi mxridan sityvis
gatexva iqneba, amitom Tqvens eWvebs arc davadastureb da arc vuaryof.
aqve
imasac
xazs
gavusvam,
rom
razec
Cven
xmamaRla
visaubreT,
samTavrobo mxarem aqac ususuroba gamoamJRavna _ magaliTad, Tuki
Cvenma aviakompaniebma vali gadaixades da reisebi aRdga, rusebi ori
wlis winac amas ar iTxovdnen? Tuki mTavroba inflacias “kbilebiT
iWers”
maSin,
morCilia,
roca
statistikis
ekonomikis
romel
departamenti
xelisuflebis
ganviTarebaze
unda
mona-
vilaparakoT?
samwuxarod, premier-ministrma saimiso codnac ki ver gamoavlina, rom
misive
yofil
sakredito
bankSi
xazebi
(Tumca,
(e.w.
SesaZloa,
“oranj
sulac
baraTebi”)
ar
aris
mxolod
yofili),
dolarebSia
gaxsnili, evro bankomatebSi saerTod ar aris da metic, sabiujeto
danarTebis cxrilebic ki dolarebSia warmodgenili.
_ Cvengan gakicxul gia jandierze ras ityviT?
_ me baton gia jandiers vicnob rogorc karg ekonomists da rac
mTavaria, is yovelTvis cdilobs, sakuTar TavTan iyos marTali. ver
getyviT, im saRamos gurgeniZem ratom moiyvana, magram roca saubari
dasaqmebis
programaze
wavida,
man
Cumad,
mokrZalebulad
Tqva,
es
proeqti ar momwonso. rogorc Cans, jandieris pozicia premierisTvisac
moulodneli aRmoCnda da rodesac q-ni inga grigolia mas SekiTxvebs
aZlevda, Segnebulad awyvetinebda.
3
_ ise, uintereso saubari erTi-orjer ingamac Seawyvetina.
_ axla, q-ni inga is wamyvania, romelic saubars mec mawyvetinebs,
premier-ministrsac da mixeil saakaSvilsac, mas Jurnalisturi siTamame
sakmaod kargad aqvs ganviTarebuli. miuxedavad imisa, rom jandieri
televiziaSi
lado
gurgeniZis
mxardasaWerad
miiyvanes,
man
Tavze
nacari mainc ar waiyara.
_ ki, magram erTi iseTi `sibrZne~ Tqva, qarTveli xalxi dResac SokSia
_ Cvenao, sakuTar Tavs TviTon unda mivxedoT da Sromis xarisxi
gaviumjobesoTo.
_
jandieri
marTalia,
Tavisi
kaxa
msoflmxedvelobiT
benduqiZem
da
lado
libertarianeli
gurgeniZemac
gaxlavT.
daibrales,
libertarianelebi varTo, magram maT am Teoriisa, samwuxarod, didi
araferi gaegebaT: maT goniaT rac ufro did zians miayeneben qarTul
saxelmwifos miT ufro didi libertarianeli reformatorebi iqnebian!
_ es albaT igive liberalizmia, xom?
_ ara gansxvavebuli mimdinareobaa, romelic ekonomikaSi xelisuflebis
TiTqmis srul Caurevlobas gulisxmobs.
_ ki, magram Cvens qveyanaSi amis Tqma ar SeiZleba.
_ geTanxmebiT, Cveni xelisufleba xan acxadebs, adamianebma sakuTar
Tavs
unda
mixedono,
xan
kidev
_
yvelaferSi
ise
ereva,
rogorc
dagibarebiaT. erTi sityviT, rodesac gurgeniZem Tqva, damxmared kidev
erTi kaci unda moviyvanoo, sibralulis grZnoba dameufla. Tu is,
rogorc q-n inga grigolias dapirda, erTi Tvis Semdeg pirdapir
eTerSi mova da aranair pirobas ar damiyenebs, maSin sxvanairi suraTi
daixateba, me misi susti mxarec vici da Zlieric.
_ gurgeniZis yvelaze susti wertili romelia?
_ kaci rom 50-dRiani gegmis 87-e dReze laparakobs ukve sustia, aba, ra
aris? am SemTxvevaSi nebismieri diskusia ukve wagebuli aqvs. msgavs
magaliTad isic gamodgeba, roca parlamentSi Semotanili biujetis
proeqtis ganmartebiT baraTSi imas weren, rom inflacia Turme atamma
4
gamoiwvia da pamidorma kidev Seamcirao, es ekonomikaa Tu ninias baRi?
iciT, gurgeniZe Zlieri raSia? is aris finansuri korporaciis kargi
mmarTveli da saqarTvelos uyurebs rogorc korporacias. me arc
bankiri gaxlavarT da arc finansuri mmarTveli, amitom am kuTxiT
davas
ar
vapireb,
magram
qveynis
ekonomika
erTi
Tundac
didi
korporacia namdvilad ar aris.
_ ese igi, premier-ministris mizania, yvelafrisgan fuli gamoadnos,
xom?
_ diax, swored asea... magaliTad, unda gaiyidos rkinigza, foTis porti,
500-milioniani
evroobligaciebi,
gurgeniZisTvis
es
kargia,
fuli
Semodis, magram momavalSi qveyana ra mdgomareobaSi aRmoCndeba, es ar
ainteresebs. rodesac Sav zRvaze `yazmunaigazi~ terminals yidulobs,
misTvis kargia, magram aviwydeba, rom es organizacia 100-procentiani
wiliT
yazaxeTis
sakuTrebas
moaxdina.
ucxo
saxelmwifos
qveynis
gurgeniZisTvis
ekuTvnis.
mTavroba
mxolod
gamodis,
odesRac
daepatrona,
mogeba
kerZo
nacionalizacia
arsebobs,
Tu
Cven
SevTanxmdebiT, rom saqarTvelo finansuri korporaciaa, maSin is kargi
mmarTvelia, magram Tu vityviT, rom saqarTvelo CvenTvis samSobloa,
misi mmarTveloba absoluturad miuRebelia.
_
rogorc
Cans,
saakaSvili
da
gurgeniZe
ukve
SeTanxmdnen,
rom
saqarTvelo finansuri korporaciaa.
_ ara mgonia, saqme ase martivad iyos, saakaSvils es sakiTxebi, Cemi
azriT,
mainc
afxazeTis,
da
mainc
samaCablosa
ar
da
aRelvebs,
natoSi
misi
yuradReba
gawevrianebis
mTlianad
sakiTxebzea
gadatanili, ekonomika mTlianad gurgeniZes, ufro sworad, benduqiZes
Caabara. dRevandeli mTavrobis Crdilovani premieri xom benduqiZe
gaxlavT.
_ benduqiZe kancelariaSi formalurad zis?
_ ra Tqma unda, es adamiani ideebis mTavari generatoria, amas arc
batoni
gurgeniZe
uaryofs,
yovelTvis
ambobs,
benduqiZesTan
TanamSromloba Zalian sasiamovnoao.
5
_ batono lado, Tqven TqviT, gurgeniZes Tavis kabinetSi erTi-erTze
velaparakeo... mainteresebs, premier-ministri rogori toniT gesaubraT
_ damrigebluriT, mbrZanebluriT Tu ubralod rCevas gekiTxebaT?
_ am SekiTxvaze rom gipasuxoT, maSin cota Soridan unda daviwyo: Cveni
urTierToba daiwyo 1994 wels, rodesac me ekonomikis ministri viyavi.
erT dRes TanaSemwe Semovida da miTxra, amerikidan Cemi megobaria
Camosuli,
saswavlebeli
axali
damTavrebuli
aqvs,
ukve
muSaobac
daiwyo da gTxovT, miiRoTo. erTi sityviT, Zalian saintereso Temebze
visaubreT, mere vTxove kidec, roca TbilisSi Camoxval, Cemi kabinetis
kari
SenTvis
Ria
iqneba-meTqi.
erTxel
niuiorkSi
mec
Cavedi
samsaxurebrivi mivlinebiT da lado gurgeniZem mTxova, aRmosavleTdasavleTis institutSi moxsenebiT gamovsuliyavi. 1997 wlidan Cveni
urTierToba
cota
sxva
formatSi
gadavida
_
lado
gurgeniZem
aRniSnuli kvleviTi instituti datova, sxva samsaxurSi wavida, man
saqarTveloSi
moamzada
da
erT-erTi
sawarmos
saministroSi
xSirad
restruqturizaciis
programa
modioda.
programa
rodesac
damTavrda, gurgeniZe aRar minaxavs, Tu ar vcdebi, isev ucxoeTSi
gabrunda, magram mas Semdeg, rac saqarTvelos banks saTaveSi Caudga,
CemTan saubris survili aRar gasCenia. rac Seexeba bolo Sexvedras...
rogor
giTxraT,
me
bunebiT
pedagogi
var
da
raRac-raRacebi
ki
vuTxari, magram mainc Tavis azrze darCa. kargad gamigeT, Zalian
gamixardeba, Tuki Cemi qveynis premier-ministri warmatebuli iqneba da
pirdapir eTerSic susti ar gamoCndeba.
_ ese igi, Tqven pirdapir eTerSi ukan imitom ixevT, rom lado
gurgeniZe susti ar gamoCndes?
_ yovel SemTxvevaSi, rac bolo `praimtaimis~ dros mTxova, Sevusrule
da axla mas moraluri ufleba ara aqvs, nawyeni iyos. me yovelTvis
mzad var, mas Tavisive TamaSis wesebiT vepaeqro.
_ ki, magram es TqvenTvis iqneba wamgebiani, mayurebeli amas grZnobs.
_ ara mgonia, aseTi pozicia CemTvis wamgebiani iyos, me is kata ara var,
romelmac
sxvas
xeze
asvla
ar
unda
aswavlos,
Tumca
Tundac
6
ramodenime saaTiani saubriT yovelive imis swavla SeuZlebelia, rasac
wlebi movandome.
gela zedelaSvili
7